I have spent a considerable amount of time lately viewing some old Villari seminar footage. I noted that more than 90% of the time Villari does not teach a technique, nor does he go over the combinations et. al… He talks about concepts and the how of fighting his way. I know that I have been to a few seminars where everyone is waiting for the next great technique we could learn. yet, most of us feel the system is too cumbersome as it is… Of course I find it fun and exciting to learn a higher combination or a cool animal technique. In the end, though, are we teaching or learning techniques or, a fighting system? I want to teach an effective fighting system that will work when I am tired, slow, the weaker fighter and old. Shaolin kempo fits the bill, in my opinion. How much is too much material? Or, a better question may be, how much emphasis on the next technique is too much. If you heard of a system that had one form that consisted of 108 postures and a five animal concept plus 12 energies you would think of an internal style such as i-hsing yi, t’ai ch’i or xing yi quan. All effective styles and few people argue that they are too cumbersome. Well, this is shaolin kempo also,as I understand it. I want to spend less time and emphasis on the set material as it is taught and more time developing skill and understanding THROUGH the material. Concepts such as chin na, locking, breaking, splitting, chopping, ward off, push, rollback, fold, unbalance, crush… are all things essential to my goal and these are found in the forms of skk and the techniques. To simply drop material from the curriculum does not solve the issue of effective fighting as I outlined above. Shihan Dwire mocks me about combination 6, yet the sun- moon block/ double block is a cornerstone of our kempo for a reason. Pushing the limits of the sensible I can teach my students important fighting concepts through combination 6, that includes the leg being longer than the arm but also execution of the block, how it can check off weapons opening space for you to enter; how they must come across in a particular manner or else other things happen that negate the primary effect of checking off the weapons; how the attackers weight distribution is manipulated by your contact; how you can begin to use this contact to gain control and awarernes of your attacker’s body…we can spend a long time on one “posture” in the 108 form and develop real skill. It takes time and can be as tedious as it is rewarding, so at a certain level, well, it just doesn’t sell. While the ‘purists’ recover from shock I will say that all the other stuff helps to boost the interest and get the bills paid. This is necessary and worthy of every true martial artist to demand at the least decent compensation for thier teachings. Back on track now, I say that more time must be spent learning weight distribution in a form, in order to strike in the most effective manner, from different positions. The dynamics of positioning and breathing and target selection beyond mere athleticism must be given emphasis over the technique and the technique and forms used as vehicles to practice and bring form to the function we are seeking or else we can talk all we like but we are just kicking and throwing out our arms like lost idiots. The more I spend time and emphasis on what I can get out of my material, the less it seems like too much material.
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Mock you? No Marlon that is not the case. Having fun with you and others on this board a little more justified. In your very next statement after talking about a front ball kick that almost all systems that kick have, you bring up the sun/moon blocking set that very few systems have in the lower levels (some may not have it in higher levels but Im not there) I have no block in combo 6 – person rushes – I blast – Sure we can get into the concepts but that just part of being a good teacher and I would expect any good teacher to show and explain to their students what you have stated about 6. I know I was told most of the things you wrote when I was a yellow belt by my teacher and we do the same. You want to continue to understand and learn your points you are talking about I seriously reccomend you going to the Saratoga Martial Arts Festival.
Jesse
In this 108 form, how many of these techniques are repeated more than once. you state that dropping material does not help in your fighting as you describe it. But i do not understand how by having all of this material helps? Is it really new material or just the same masked with a different entry or middle move? What if you were to figure out what was going on and then realized you had all this material teaching the same thing? would this still be beneficial to your students? I am not saying i have the right answers but I do believe I am on the right track – that is until I figure something else out and realize that 20 years just got me to this point.
Well I had a smiley face in my head when i wrote that you “mock” me, Jesse. In retrospect I should have incorporated it into the text. In fact I was taught that doing combination six without the blocks is the ” higher” level of the move by Shihan Nohltey and my first black belt re certification. This blog is me sharing some of my thoughts and opinions on shaolin kempo. I am far from perfect and still have a lot to learn, but I have learned some things and do thing the way I do based on my understanding and experience while being open to grow and learn otherwise and change as needed. I respect Matt and Chris and you and Justin very much. We do things differently and I love to learn from you all. I do not normwould not use this space to attack anyone personally. If I were to have a problem with anyone I would approach them privately. Hopefully this is clear… 🙂
Respect and peace
Marlon
If you look at the classic 108 form of taiji there is a great deal of repetition. I do not have as much experience as you do, Jesse ( to be clear for everyone I am not using Shihan Dwire’s title at his request and not as any kind of disrespect). This summer you took the time to call me and reach out as a friend and a martial artist, which I sincerely appreciate, probably more than you know. I am a better teacher, martial artist and business person because of you and still have a tremendous amount to learn. I still have my own way of seeing things and I actually think that the SKK system is built to be a great vehicle for fighting and honestly so that the teachers have a wonderful hook to keep students interested and developing, even though there is repetition. I do not know what, if anything you have seen fit to remove from the curriculum. However, I can honestly say that I am sure your students do not loose out one bit. I have struggled with dropping material quite a bit and have come to a different conclusion for myself and my students. Nperhaps, in the futur I will see things differently. Nobviously from my post it is still something that plays on my mind. The black belts and I have this discussion from time to time and always with mixed feelings. So far my choice has been to keep things as it has been given to me except for half – mooning and the ” Kempos” that MSDC introduced. I have also eliminated the set grab, club, and knife defenses for the most part. These decisions were made in no small part from listening to many of you. That being said my post above, which I just re read seems pretty clear that I am looking at some things differently but perhaps it could be interpreted as I am judging negatively others. I assure you, I am not and I know that I may be completely wrong and just not seeing it right now. Hopefully no one is offended by my opinion.
Btw I would love to go to the Saratoga thing, but unfortunately I cannot this year. I am so jealous of how much more access you guys have to seminars and great martial artists!!! In anycase feel free to share some of what you learn. I love to learn
Can we be taught, teach and be effective with less material? YES, of course. Shaolin Kempo, as Villari taught, is a system or style or way all of which can be debated. Any Martial Art has more than what is needed to be an effective fighter. Also, being an effective fighter will be different to everyone. Regardless of style or training people will vary on attitude and response. What we need to defend ourselves is little more than the will to hurt the person in front of us, everything after that just falls into the category of what floats our boat. In other words in my opinion, the style, the seminar, the next cool technique, the new weapon, the new form all have something to teach and concepts to learn but THAT is what keeps us coming back to the classroom. Defend yourself? Poke somebody in the eye kick em in the groin and stomp on their head when they are down…..done lesson over but THAT doesn’t make a Martial Artist. What makes a Martial Artist is the detail work, whether it be in an art with one form or twenty, one technique or 108. Sometimes less isn’t more sometimes less is just less. But then again, that is just sometimes.
Justin, first I would like to say that there are a crap load of students out there who need you teaching… Most have no idea that they do.
My only point of contention is that a brawler can brawl and it is not much, and usually age or a bigger brawler will beat them. A martial artist, as you say is something else, something tempered and more lasting
Thanks for sharing
Ok no edit button. What I intended to write was that a” brawler can brawl” , and not that a “vealer can break”
Damn auto edit!!!
(Fixed it for you–Matt)
(*although I feel like ‘a vealer can break’ is euphemism waiting to happen;-)*)
WOW!!! You both are ALIVE!!! Somebody is still alive in here. Thought this died.
You two sure are talking about alot of stuff. Yikes!!!
As for “half mooning”, I too pretty much don’t do that. I usually just stay in a “natural stance”, using my hips, knees, and feet “rooted to the Earth” to strike. Except in Forms, etc. I think I developed an “aversion” to “half mooning in” and striking, due to doing it so many times and getting taken out (i.e. in practice, punching in for someone doing a technique). Further, I never developed nor felt comfortable and strong in a Okinawan Karate “Forward Stance”, to strike from.
As for “concepts” and “principles”, what I have come to learn from studying Judo, as well as some Aikido, and a bit more of Small Circle Jujitsu, is that there exist a certain number of “underlining principles” and not “techniques”. That it is the understanding of these “principles” which is important, not the specific “techniques (i.e. throws in Judo)” or how many “techniques”. That IF you understand these “principles”, then many techniques will come from them, in a natural, flowing, and flexible way. i.e. not as rigid, set, and fixed way of doing one thing. If you watch the fair number of videos on YouTube of Master Bressard (is that his name?) in Hyannis DO and Discuss #3 Combination. What come out of all that? That there is an “underling, core principle” to Combo #3. That it does not have to be done in only one set, fixed, rigid way. Why? Because in a real life fight, there is a 99.9% chance that you will never beable to defend against someone punching at you, in the way that you were taught to do #3 in the dojo. But…..the “underling principles” are there, upon which you can “adapt” to any new, unfamiliar, and sudden situation, out in the street, and defend yourself against a punch. The same goes for pretty much EVERYTHING taught in Kempo. Each person must find there own way, what works for them. Which techniques to embrace and which to discard. Everyone is different.
So instead of thinking of it as 108, think of it as 1.
As for #6, I too was taught just to blast with the front ball kick BEFORE the guy’s punch can even come in……no block. Because your leg is long than his arm, and more powerful. But from that, I incorporated any number of different blocking schemes, movements, evasions, deflections etc. As one example: stepping to the outside of his punch, blocking the outside of his arm, turning your body almost 90 degrees, and blasting him in the side of the ribs, or the side of the knee. It is NOT #6 as you were taught in the dojo, but the “underlining principles” of #6 are there. Sort of a hybrid of #6 and #7.
As for “repetitiveness”, I think we can all agree that yes, there is alot of that. But, perhaps for a reason. What was that reason? To fill in some numbers to get more techniques, or to present a minor variation to the core technique, or is there in fact some new “principle” being introduced which we do not yet perceive and understand? I dunno.
I have been working on, for awhile now, for my own reference, a Typed Up List and Description of ALL Throws and Variations, which I come across. Now, in Judo, The Kodokan says that there are 67 “techniques”….. that is all. (But even some of these are variations of basic throws, and basic “principles”). But, there are perhaps a few hundred “variations”, some subtle, some not so subtle, which may or may not be thought of as wholly different techniques. That depends upon each person’s views on the matter. Judo purist will say that there are 67 techniques……period!. But these are not viewed as “repetitive” nor to be “discarded”. These are simply different ways of doing the basic throw, based upon the “underling Principle”. So it isn’t so much a question of “less is more, or less is less, or more is more, or more is too much”, it is a question of attaining knowledge of the Art, expanding one’s horizon, becoming more proficient, becoming a “Martial Artist” rather than a “fighter”, rather than a “thug” (read MMA here….. cough, cough).
What was it that GM Villari said (I think he said it, perhaps it was someone else)……”The study of the Martial Arts is a study of Life, and it is a lifetime study”.
All your talk about “fighting” and becoming a “better fighter” concerns me a bit. Why do we study the Martial Arts? So we won’t have to Fight!!!! Is that not correct?
To Paraphrase James Mitose ( I really do have to look this up, to get it right, I have it right here somewhere)…….”A True Martial Artist NEVER even has to touch his attacker”.
These, above, are why I get into heated exchanges, on line, with MMA types, or proponents. They get pissed when I say that MMA guys ARE NOT Martial Artists but simply fighters. That they are young, have size, weight, muscles, energy, aggression, are probably hyped up on steriods and drugs, and are just brawlers. That MMA promoters, and fighters, made MMA and it’s rules the way they wanted in order to favor the way that they do things and to put at a disadvantage others (i.e. Kempo, Karate, Kung Fu, Small Circle Jujitsu, etc.). That their rules are set in order to encourage that they “clinch”, “tackle the guy”, go to the ground, etc, etc. etc… But they are not “martial artist”. Perhaps, a handful are, but most are not.
Marlon, I do not see how you could think that you are offending anyone, or that anyone would be offended by anything you have written. I am sure that that is not the case.
I remember Bob Nohelty.
As for Less material.. I had always heard, that there are or may be a number of hard Okinawan Karateka, in Japan and Okinawan, that are great “fighters”, that they can beat anybody with 1 kick, 1 punch, 1 block (meaning 1 type not that they win a match by only throwing 1 kick and 1 punch).. generally a Front Ball Kick, a Reverse Punch, and probably a 3 or 4 block. That they practice adn perfect these constantly. Then in a match….BOOM!!! I know, I got blasted with one of those punches one time. Yikes!!! Similar to how Bill “Superfoot” Wallace could only kick with one leg (due to injury). The other guy knew this, but it made no difference. He could slice and dice right thru a guy’s defenses and pick away at his head with Roundhouse, Hook, Side kicks. So, yes, sometimes Less can be More….. or More than enough..
Yes, it is the “refinement”, the “perfecting” of the techniques, the principles. The “ingraining” them into your being, so much so that you don’t think about it, you don’t even react, you simple DO. As I was always taught… “if you have to react to something, it is too late” [let alone think about it]. Different Arts express this in a different way, terms. In Aikido, it is called “Aiki”…. meaning, esssentially, “harmony spirit”. That your spirit is in harmony with the spirit of your opponent, so much so that you sense what he is going to do even before he knows what he is going to do. That you do not think about, nor to you react. You are one with your opponent, you blend with his actions and movements, you are in harmony with him. Such is attained by the higher ups in Kempo. If you watch Master Bressard’s videos….. The speed, the flow, the continuous movement, the power, etc…. (what could he do against a MMA guy?). Then again, if one trains in Chi, and is able to tap into one’s Chi, in an instant, then that’s a whole other story, now isn’t it. Then you wouldn’t even have to strike or touch the guy. Your Chi would do it for you.
One time online, I got into a heated debate with MMA worshippers. I told them that those guys in MMA don’t know how to punch or kick, etc… I told them, that’d I’d hit them with so many punches, so fast, coming from so many different angles, that I wouldn’t stop until it was over. I’d hit them with this strike (naming it), and this, and this, and this….. The guy had no idea what the heck I was tallking about, the different strikes. Because they simply do not know. They make a fist and they punch, or they throw an elbow. That is all they know. They don’t know what a Shuto is, or Eagle’s Talon, or Phoenix, or anything.
The point I’m getting to is, if you consider the numerous strikes we know, that these are not too numerous material, but are essential ….ummmm……elements of Kempo. In my notebook, I have page after page after page of listed Punches/Hand Strikes. Ones delivered in different ways to different points.
Another key aspect, is the knowing WHERE to strike. Not necessarily to the eyes or groin or knee or stomp the head. But the more “fine tuned” selective points to strike, that gives us and Kempo an advantage. Of course a number of other Arts know these as well… Kung Fu…..some Jujitsu sytles know nerve points, pressure point, meridians, etc.. A simple, sublte strike to the right spot is better than pounded his head in with an elbow or hammer strike.
So, it may help NOT to look at it as 108 techniques, and X number of forms, and blocks, etc, etc. etc……but to look at it all as a Whole!! View it as I view LOVE….. Love is NOT a single quanity which if divided amongst a number of people (i.e. wife, children, parents, etc), each person gets less love, less of your love. NO!! Love is like a Balloon… The more you love, the more people you love, and the more people who love you means that your Love Balloon will expand even more. So there will be MORE love, not less, to give to one person (i.e. your wife). The same view can be used when considering the study of a Martial Art, i.e. Kempo. That the “material” is not divisible, but infinitely expanding like a Big Balloon. You continually learn, so your Art’s Balloon keeps expanding. So it shouldn’t be a question of keeping or discarding, etc.. All knowledge is good, even bad or incorrect knowledge. One is always learning from one’s mistakes, experiences….. good or bad, right or wrong.
But as for you being teachers, in regards to what to teach your students.. well that’s another story. You can’t teach them EVERYTHING, that would take a lifetime. So yes, you have to be selective in what to teach them, and not to burden them with a volume of material. Whenever I have taught someone anything, I try to teach the “underlining principle” without regard to a set form. Then allow them to find their own way from that, working out different situations and scenarios. Often I like to simply have them close their eyes, for the eyes lie to us. In order to discover how the “principle” can be flexible and adapted to a surprising situation. Rather than a set technique, i.e. Knife comes in, you do this and you do that, etc. Well, in the real world you’re going to be dead. Cuz an attacker pulling a knife on you and lunging at you, will all happen in a fraction of a second. You don’t have time to do a set defense technique. It is simply do or die, defend, react, don’t get stabbed, go with the flow, do whatever the bleep you can do and have to do to survive.
I always come back to and refence that saying I learned from the Kung Fu TV Show…… “The Attacker Must Prevail, The Defender Must Merely Survive!!”. ………..That, after all, is the true crux of it all……isn’t it?
So, all this other stuff about, do #6 this way or that way, do this block, don’t block, do #3 this way, kick this way, etc, etc, etc,,,, is all merely “frosting on the cake” of the main objective…….To Live…….Don’t Fight.
Marlon: I do not know what you mean by “eliminated…. set grabs….” What are “set grabs”? Also, why are u eliminating Club and Knife Defense Techniques? Granted the ones taught in Kempo, at least what I learned in Kempo, are weak, if not piss poor and dangerous, i.e. not workable in real life. But there are a number of Club and Knife, and ohter weapon defense techniques from other Arts. You can look at Small Circle Jujitsu, Krav Maga, Sambo, Hapkido, some Kung Fu Styles etc, for techniques that work and which are practical and pragmatic for real life situation. So instead of eliminating them, seek out viable techniques that really work, and present them in a real life situational manner.
This, and any Forum, should be a Mutual Exchange of Ideas, Thoughts, Opinions, Experiences, Knowledge, and Techniques, for the Mutual Benefit of all. If you go to judoforum.com you will see a Library of discussions and exchange, all for the Mutual Benefit of all. To expand the knowledge of the Art(s).
there will be differences of opinion, criticism, an occassional insult or hurt feeling, but…….that is the part of any interface of different people coming at the same topic from different places. Some people are adament in their beliefs and positions on an issues, others may be more open minded. It is all to learn.
But we must all know our limitations and our own mortality. NONE of this, is going to do Jack against a Drunk Driver in a pickup truck blasting thru a red light and slamming into your driver’s side door at 60 mph. Nor is it going to anything, or not much, against the good ole Smith & Wesson Technique, or an Uzi, etc… So we all need to keep this in perspective. None of us are Superman. We might have a Tarzan or two, but no Supermen.
So what, where, and when is this Saratoga Martial Arts Festival?
So, it’s good to see somebody back on here. Where have you been?
Where is Matt?
Thank you, best regards
Todd – Boston.
Todd,
I got through half your post, I will get to the other half tommorow.. haha, good insights. At the end of the post you asked about. Saratoga Martial Arts Festival.
http://www.saratogafestival.com/
I have been and taught there a few times. Great time I hope to make it back there this year too but not sure. It is a great time with open minded martial artists.
Jesse
Jesse,
It says Saratoga is April 15-17, 2011. I’ll probably be dead by then. Geesshhh!!!! Long ways off. But thanks for site.
That’s ok, u have until end of next week to read the other half of my comment. hee hee hee.
New Kempo school opening in North Quincy Center. Is that one of your people, Jesse?
Todd
No thats not one of my people but would love to know who it is. If you were to know my schedule I need to plan this far ahead just to stay focused. There is another great seminar happening in Mid March in Manchester NH, Soke Mike DePasquale Jr, Super foot Wallace, Hanshi Bruce Jucnik, and many more. It is run by Master Terry Dow and he does a great job with it.
Jesse
Focus Grasshopper, Focus.
I misquoted from the old “Kung Fu” TV show. It was ……..
“The Attacker Must Vanquish, The Defender Must Merely Survive”.
Sounds like a good group of people.
I, on the other hand, can’t plan past tomorrow.
Jesse, where did u say u were based again? Somewhere on the N. shore? I know one of your people is out in Natick.
Jesse, I clicked on you BLUE highlighted name, and it sent me to your Dojo site. I looked at your Bio. So, u got your Shodan AFTER I got mine? Is the inference that you earned you Shodan while u were still in High School?
Pics, looks like a nice Dojo.
Congrats on your Promotion to Rokudan (6th Degree).
All of your Instructors look so young!!!! I’m getting too old!!!
So, u are in Chelmsford. Long way from me. I almost never get up that way. What brought u all the way from NY State to Chelmsford?
So u appear to have a “mix” of base Arts, besides Kempo. Of what would you say this “mix” consists? (I had to change that in order to speak the King’s proper English, no dangling participle!!!). What is your strongest area?
Todd,
Not sure when you got your shodan but yes I got my shodan in 93 when I was in H.S. By my instructors do you mean the ones above me or below me? Of the people who help teach at my school half are older then I am and Half are younger I would say. Not all are listed on my new site. Not that they are not worthy, just that I did not have an up to date bio on them when I created the new site. I am in Chelmsford and yes a student of mine has a Dojo in Natick. He just recently created his own school called Revolution Martial Fitness. I am very proud of him and persuing his dream of what he feels are his next stages in the arts just as I was encouraged by my teacher to go after my dreams. I train regularly with my original instructor from NY, Prof. Rudy Duncan, who has a diverse background and has been in the arts for over 50 yrs. His focus is on Hawaiian Kempo, silat and Tai Chi. I also train in Arnis/escrima (of all prob. my weakest art) without just re-writing my bio, when I got to New England (hired here from NYto run a franchise that I broke from) I wanted to try and piece together my Kempo through all the stages. Priledged to train with some top Prof. Cerio instructors and SGM Pesare himself, as well as SGM Gascon and others along those lineage lines (back to Motobu Sensei training with him here and Japan). This is probably why I became such good friends with Matt and his quest to do something similiar. What is my strongest area? Knowing people around me and trying to keep that circle positive and filled with great martial artist. I have a degree in social work and also a licensed massage therapist. in my 20+ years in the arts I cant think of a single time where I took more then 2 weeks off of training and I love it. What about yourself Todd? What is your lineage and your strong points? Also do you know the name of that school you were asking about? I would love to figure out who is opening.
On a side note. I had 4 of my students fight in SGM Pesares Best of the Best tournament over Labor Day Weekend. This is a 9 event tournament.
Power:
Boxing, kicking and grappling
Speed:
knife, stick and sword,
Accuracy:
Knife Throwing, archery, pistol craft.
My 2 female fighters (green belts) took 2nd and 3rd against black belts and my male fighters fought hard but did not place.
Part I
No, I was talking about your instructors, under u, at your dojo.
Well, I’m sure this got mentioned before. I started with Villari’s, earned my Shodan, finally in 1992, I think it was, or 1990, I’d have to look. A long time ago. But soon after I injured a disc in my lower back, and have been laid up immobile for a week, in pain, a number of times. So that’s no fun. Plus, also, the politics, infighting, and paranoia, in Villari’s, got too much for me to handle. I think there is only one left in Somerville, near Boston.
I also studied Small Circle Jujitsu for awhile (did not earn rank, but what I learned saved my butt on a few occassions), and Judo for awhile longer (again, did not get ranked), and a little Aikido and Escrima, as well as just practical living, street wise, life stuff. I’ve been keeping up with Judo mostly and SCJ. Also, been looking at more weapons self defense (gun, knife), and some of Gracie Jujitsu (mainly concerned with NOT getting pinned or submitted, concerned with escapes).
I was never big on Tournaments (pt sparring, forms, etc.). I’m not one for displaying myself. I’m a private, easy going, reserved person. But at 51, I’m not a wreck or out of shape. It’d only take a short while to get back into running shape, and stretching, etc. I try to keep up with it, keep myself going. But no time. But I’m not going to be doing 100 kicks or this and that kick, etc… No Scorpion Kicks, Sorry!!!!
My interests ARE NOT in sparring, fighting, competing, tournaments etc, they are in hobby, history, culture, knowlege, fitness, and self defense for everyday (i.e. what are u going to doing when u are sick and tired, leaving work, in a 3 piece suit, dress shoes, overcoat, and it’s snowing and icy and 10 degrees?).
I had also studied a little Japanese. So I have drifted more to the Japanese Arts, and searching for the Original Kenpo, and away from the Chinese, American systems. Although I have looked at Dr. Yang’s Chin Na, etc, and tried to keep in touch with the Shaolin Animals, etc. Just not Kung Fu. I did pull off a Bruce Lee One Inch Punch on a guy one time, several years ago. Just demonstrating it too him. Laid him right over the hood of the car. I was shocked. So, on occassion, I surprise myself, when I allow myself to rely upon my training. But again, a little Escrima (Remy Presas), and whatever else looks interesting, good, and works. But I have not studied Okinawan Karate, but I have been HIT with it… yikes!!! I even looked at Old stuff, like an Art called Bartjitsu (if I spelled it correctly). That was a turn of the century (i.e. 1900’s), developed by an English guy, in London, who put together a bunch of different Arts he came in contact with. Judo, Jujitsu, Boxing, Wrestling, and some Swiss Stick fighting, etc.. Recently I have been researching more historical stuff, mainly Judo and other Japanese Arts. Again, I have an interest in the History and the Origins.
I had found (or rather someone presented Online) some pics of Ancient Egyptian depictions, of 2 men fighting like wrestling or Judo), from the walls of a Tomb from ………..oh I forget what year………I’d have to looked it up……a long time ago. I need to go into the Museum of Fine Arts in Boston, and talk to an Egyptologist there, and try to get photos of all these depictions. There are suppose to be over 300. Also, saw a pic of a small stone tablet, online. suppose to be one of the, if not the, earliest known depictions of 2 men fighting. From Iraq or Iran, from like 2800 BC or something. The question has been posed: When and what was the First Martial Art? One would first need to define what one means by “martial art”. But, the Shoalin Temple in Hunan Province, China (oh!! which by the way, I do believe I just recently ZOOMED in on using an online Satellite Aerial View Site), when the Indian Buddhist monk Boddidharma came there (c. 540 AD) was NOT the first Martial Art. There were Indian fighting Arts before that, and other fighting arts in China. Also, one must remember that Alexander the Great made it to India (c. 330 BC), and the Greeks were trained in fighting. The Ancient Olympics (long before this) had events of fighting. Greek Soldiers were trained in both armed and unarmed combat. But does that fit what our definition of a “martial art” would be today? I dunno. So there may have been curriculum of unarmed, hand to hand fighting going back well before anything we have found recorded. How far back? 3,000 BC? 4,000? 5,000? Who knows. But it is an interesting intellectual question, and interesting research.
Also, I’ve been working, for my own reference, on writing a Descriptive List of ALL THROWS!!!! Now, Judo purist and The Kodokan (Judo HQ in Tokyo) will tell u that there are ONLY 67 throws (or “nage”). That all others are merely variations on these. Which for the most part (prob 98%) is true. But, I’m trying to write up, all “significant” variations to the standard throws. As well as all other throws which are prohibited in Judo (cuz they may utilize wristlock, etc.), as well as “Takedowns”, etc. I’m not sure how many I have right now, I haven’t worked on it for awhile. It keeps expanding. But I’m thinking I should have about 400 when I’m done. Including takedowns, pushdowns, pull downs, etc… not actual throws. Anything that will get the opponent to the ground, besides punching and kicking him down.
Thats just awesome and yes I did read the entire post. History is fascinating to me but I do not have the brain for it like Matt here does. My instructor in NY is def. more into the Chinese arts then I am (He studied Japanese arts for like 20 years and was done with them) I started with him 20 years ago so I have his Chinese Martial influence but have recently (over past 6 years) been expanding into the Japanese knowledge base and it seems my body type does a little better with it.
First, I had “rambled on”, before, just sitting here, typing away the other night. But I did not want to burden you with it all, by posting it. I saved, but I’ll try to edit it down significantly, because what u read above did not answer all your questions.
As for History, there are alot of Video clips (short and long) on YouTube of alot of Martial Arts. Alot of them are B.S., fakes, set ups, etc.. but alot are real. There is very little on SCJ, a little bit more on Kempo, a bit more on Aikido, but a ton on Judo. Alot of vintage films of old Masters, such as Kimura and Mifune. I have been learning alot from Mifune videos, cuz I think we are similar in size, philosophy, and approach. Whereas Kimura was a big strong guy. He did alot of power techniques. I have one re-animated video of a 1905 film showing 2 Japanese guys in London, doing Judo. Very interesting. There are videos on stuff from the 30’s and 40’s. videos of Gracie’s match vs Kato and Kimura in Brazil in 1954 (?????). Alot of History in there, u just have to search. Then IF u can find any good real videos on Shaolin Martial Arts, the actual monks doing stuff, then that’s a whole other Universe. Those guys are light years above and beyond anybody else.
I have tried to research Mitose’s supposed original Kempo carried on my his son Thomas Mitose, but how can one know for sure. Supposedly Bruce Junick (spelling???) carried on Mitose’s Kempon, but…???????
Have you researched this, studied this at all? They are based in Cal.
It appears to me that there is a significant difference between Northeast Kempo (even a diff between Villari and Cerio) and Parker Kempo and Hawaii Kempo and Mitose Kempo and even others in US. From what I have seen from videos, that is. Do you concur? Have u noticed a difference?
Ah yes!!! one must know ones own body, mustn’t one? Yes, you need to match your body type to the Martial Art. I for one, early on, knew that Kung Fu and TKD was not for me. Kempo suited me well. Judo I have a tougher time with. SCJ suits me quite well. I like Escrima. Aikido is very fascinating, but difficult to grasp. If you go on YouTube and search for videos on Steven Seagal, u may find one where some of his Black Belt students are talking. One older guy explains Aikido in a nutshell. He said something to the effect of …..”It’s so complicated, yet it’s so simple”. Meaning that Aikido is simple, only it goes completely against what we have been taught our entire lives, how we live. So it is very difficult to grasp, to ingrain into oneself.
So what “expanding [your] Japanese base” have u been doing? Have u been studying Okinawan Karate? Judo, Jujitsu, Aikido, Iaido, Kendo, Kyudo, Sumo? Or just pretty Japanese girls? Do you speak any Japanese? Anata wa Nihongo O dekimasu ka.
I don’t know if I said in my post just above, but I have been seeing in recent years, a “coming together” of Kempo, SCJ, Escrima, and now Gracie JJ being added in. Also, I see elements of Sambo and Krav Maga, more weapons defenses being added in. Elements of Aikido too. I know the times, at Judo, I have added in Aikido, it freaks them out. But at the dojo I was at, we had alot of different people bringing in diff stuff. While trying to keep within Judo rules and protocol (of which there are alot).
Again….. Where is Matt?
Another good thing to train in is Walking Cane. You know, either a straight walking cane or the curved over, hook handled walking cane.
Also, in how to use an Umbrella as a weapon. A long straight one is best, i.e. like a walking cane. But even a shorter closed up Tote one can suffice. I saw some where, a video course on using an umbrella, and an “indestructible” umbrella for sale. supposedly can put it between two chairs and stand on it, and it won’t break.
In today’s Litigious and Statutory environment we live in today, i.e. so many laws against everything. In actuality Nunchakas are ILLEGAL in Mass. So being able to use more “common” items which have “another” use in society (to satisfy the LAW), is a good idea. Now, a baseball bat or a hockey stick MIGHT get by, but………?????? So such things as a walking cane or an umbrella can quell the irate eye of the law, easier. I use to carry a cane in my car, but don’t know, not sure where it is. I have an Escrima stick, a Tonfa (loves those. Nunchakus and I do not go together), a telescopic baton.
Even such things as how to use a Pen, a Hairbrush, a set of Keys,. I use to use a Kubotan as a key chain, but I found with a newer car I bought, it kept hitting my knee.
In Mass.. EVERYTHING is a DEADLY WEAPON. If u kick someone with a soft sneaker on, that is Assault and Battery with a Deadly Weapon, wit: a Shod Foot (meaning you are where footwear, not a bare foot). So, if u poke someone with a Bic Pen, that’s a Deadly WEapon. But………The Prosecutor and the Court will undoubtedly view somethings MORE deadly than others. The more to “common use” an item is, such as a mop handle, the less likely you will get in trouble with it. But, if you defend yourself with a huge Bowie Knife, then……….Like if Crocodile Dundee pulled out that big knife of his in Boston………..Clink, Clink.. I can hear those jail cell doors closing on him now. Actually there are Laws in Mass, as to knives (but I don’t know what they are exactly), but I know that Boston has an Ordinance that you can’t carry a knife with a blade longer than 2″ or 2 1/2″, not sure which. Actually the Mass Law as to what a deadly weapon is, is very long, listing a lot of things. I had a book, from a long time ago, which gave the laws in all 50 States as to what constituted a “deadly weapon” and Mass, was the most inclusive. Like I said, whatever it is, once you use, then it is a deadly weapon. If u hit somebody in the head with a Bible at church, that’s a deadlly weapon. Or maybe the term is “dangerous weapon”, whereas “deadly weapon” would be a gun or a knife. I forget. i.e “lethal weapons”, gun, knife, machete, sword, bayonnet, bazooka.
I have trained (in seminar and personal settings) with Soke Thomas Mitose and Hanshi Juchnik – very different. Thomas Mitose is a Kaju man who also did some training with his father. The two men I have done some Japanese training with are Soke DePasquale Jr. and Hanshi Vince Anthony http://www.camausa.com Both are great instructors and next week there are about 10 from my dojo driving to DC to train with him. We have always had a lot of knife and weapons defense including application in our Kempo from the get go (20 yrs ago) also Aikido was in our system from the start too. Not so much the BJJ, but everything else you mentioned was in our system already (at least in NY)I see a lot of similiarites between Krav and Kempo – What is SCJ? I am have a mind block. For your final question… I spoke to Matt last night and told him people were getting mad not seeing him on here. His mind is far from SKK right not and is focusing heavily on his Kempo-Jutsu Kai and promoting it throughout New England in Private and group settings.. There are at least I believe 3 new Ct. school ‘owners’ who are learning it now. So good for him he is working hard for Prof. Kimo. The cane is not something I have ever gotten into but something that would be fun..
Jesse – off for the night – gotto love Thurs night guys night out….
SCJ is Small Circle JuJitsu of Wally Jay. His guy here is Ed Melaugh in Woburn, 8th dan. Also Dave Castoldi (Ed Melaugh was like HIS first student way back when), who studied under Wally Jay, and Willy Cahill (Judo and SCJ) too, I guess. He is older now, kinda doing his own thing, named his own system, 10th dan. But I do believe that they all still work together and get along. Wally Jay “retired”, he is like 92 or 93 now. I believe that there are 4 guys heading up SCJ: Ed Melaugh, here; his son Leon Jay who lives and is based in England, just outside London (cuz he married an English gal); and 2 others whose names I don’t know off hand (1, I guess, heading up the WEst Coast in Alemeida, CA, and 1 somewhere else).
Ed Melaugh and/or DAve Castoldi have a couple of guys elsewhere. 1 is in Framingham or Natick I think, ummm.. his name is Curtis ???? (last or first), and I think there is someone else around, but I can’t think now.
you can go to http://www.jujitsudefense.com
for Ed Melaugh’s site. I think he has a bunch of links to others, i.e. Wally Jay’s site, etc…
That’s very ….. adventurous… to be traveling to train. Takes alot of time and money, and commitment. Neither, unfortunately, am I able to afford.
Yes, it seems to me, that there has been alot of “blending” of Different Arts (as I like to call it), coming out of NY, NYC, and Philly area. Also, CA. “blending” Kempo, Judo, SCJ, Escrima, Jeet Kune Do, weapons defense, etc, and now Gracie/BJJ. It is a natural occurance. The day will come when all the “extraneous” and “repetitive” material is eliminated, and there will be only 1 martial art. It may take 100 years or 1000 years, but it is enevitable.
Yes, there are aspects and principles of Aikido which you can employ without having to have to study and train in, and encopass the entire Art. That when some of these principles are applied to and utilized within another Art, such as Judo or Kempo, there can be some very interesting applications and results. These Aikido principles can “fine tune” techniques in other Arts. However, much is prohibited in Judo, under Judo Rules (i.e. wrist locks, so any Kote Gaeshi or Sankajo is prohibited in Judo). Also, there are a number of intersting Aikido techniques which can be applied in a Self Defense or “arrest” situation, which are very nice, very quick, and very subtle.
I’ve seen some Krav Maga. At the outset it appears “good”, but then again I’ve seen somethings they do which appear to be dangerous and unworkable in a real life situation. The underlining premise of Krav Maga seems good, it’s just that some of the techniques are questionable. Too risky, too complicated, not direct enough. Again, I’m saying “some”. There is one, or a few, good videos on YouTube on Krav Maga. gun defenses. particularly these 2 Jewish/German guys, in Germany (video is in German), doing Krav Maga gun defense techniques. using a REAL GUN, an automatic pistol. At one point, the gun suddenly goes off BAMMM!!! I jumped out of my seat!!! Obviously using blanks, but still…….
Good for Matt. So is he still in Orleans, MA, or has he moved on? or just moving around?
Good Luck in DC !!!
Todd.
To Jesse et als
Just for curiousity interest.
I found a note on my desk here.
Bartitsu: The Lost Martial Art of Sherlock Holmes. As mentioned in one of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle’s Sherlock Holmes Stories.
http://www.bartitsu.org
E.W. Barton-Wright. Founder of Bartitsu in 1899. His school closed, though, in 1902.
Videos on YouTube of Bartitsu. A mix of Jujitsu, Judo, Boxing, Savate, and Swiss Stick (cane) Fighting.
Apparently there are a group of people who are trying to preserve this Art, and revive it.
Also, I have in my comp here somewhere, An English Translation of a Dutch Manual of 1674 by Nicholas Petter, showing many and very detailed Jutjitsu “type” techniques.
http://www.scribd.co…4-Worstel-Konst
I’m not too certain about those 3 dots up there “…”, but that is how I have it written down.
Hi folks-
Thanks for carrying on without me. Marlon – if you log back in and click on ‘posts’ you can do some editing if you wish. I’ll be back, (soon I hope), but yes, my priorities are keeping me elsewhere (including my job).
Matt
Todd-
Still on Cape Cod, still teaching at CCMAA (although soccer coaching puts me on hold there for about a month), but I did have a chance years ago (1997?) to attend some seminars with Ed Melaugh and my cousin studied there for a while. He’s the real deal, and I just loved watching him work. You can tell that 1.) he’s great at what he does (SCJ) and 2.) he loves doing it. If you get the old Wally Jay arm lock and finger lock videos, in many cases Ed is the Uke. I still use drills I learned there.
Marlon –
Besides popping my head in to prove I’m alive, I’d also like to comment on your article. I think that the point you raised about learning a method of fighting instead of learning a bunch of material (I’m paraphrasing) is particularly important. The material is a means to an end, not the end in itself.
Learning through the material, in that you can explore the concepts at length is great. I think to do this, we must get away from testing = perform a list of techniques to minimum standards, to testing = solving problems at a certain degree of proficiency using the tools from your material.
I’ve been discussing this concept with Jesse, and it’s based out of what they call ‘Backwards Design’ curriculum, so you start with what you want your students to know and be able to do, and then determine the best activities/techniques/etc. to get them there. This leaves room for teacher flexibility, while still keeping strong standards.
This way, material can take it’s place as means to an ends, and you can put your personal spin on things but still have your students end up capable (and testable) at black belt.
Just food for thought.
Good to hear from you Matt. The comment you make about reverse engineering is exactly the response I received from Shihan when I asked how can I tell/ train a student to be a good black belt. I find the combinations I have been taught and the animal and kempo techniques provide a great deal of base concepts and variation to help develop a fighter. Forms lend other important practices and skill sets to train for practical fighting. The ” at length” exploration I feel comes more after black belt. The “what if” syndrome and playing around, without enough set basics can be detrimental.
A point you touch on is training methods. More important than curricullum in some ways. I know that when I test people for the higher belts I go first through strength and conditioning stuff; basics and drill; and then the set material. Then the fun begins with reaction drills, one on one stuff; two on one stuff; kempo sparring, grappling, situational stuff. So, knowing myself and not wanting the students to fail due to lack if preparedness, classes are structured with that in mind, the forms are taught with that in mind, the combinations and techniques are taught with that in mind…
Where the Villari curriculum lacks, for myself is in the ground work against multiple attackers sometimes, defense against knives, in that these things are not directly answered by the forms and combinations. Shihan teaches these things separately (in a more reactionary manner than set techniques) from all his experience and training with various high level practitioners in these areas. I have learned from him and through my own experience and training. All this to say that, what we teach, how we test and how we train must be geared to the end of getting to a high level of fight ability and skill. So, I agree with you and Jesse. I find ( perhaps differently from yourself) that the SKK curricullum and the Villari teachings that I have been exposed to, fit the bill for the most part. Rather than re inventing the set material (partly due to the fact that I,personally, am not sure that I am qualified to do so nor do I have the time to do something of that magnitude well), I am focusing on training it as effectively as possible.
Once again, the financial necessities of an instructor and more importantly a good instructor, is also satisfied by the pre set Villari “overload” of material. It keeps things challenging on many levels, fun and adds the element of continous progression. All important stuff if one wants kempo to grow and to have the good teachers available to teach.
Wow I can blah blah with the worst of them can’t I? Sorry about that
I like the personal spin thing that you speak of Matt. I use the material to cover any defiencies I have in my teaching skills. My thinking is that, by teaching the things I have been taught, while adding my personal spin, I am doing the students a service with the intent that they become better than I was at thier level. There will be some, however, whose make up is such that, my personality and teaching style may not convey to them all I want to share. Therefore, I teach the curricullum. This way,those whose thinking and way of learning that are very different than mine will, at least, have the same opportunity I had. Well, there is a run on sentence, if ever one existed. Apologies, too tired to edit my grammar and syntax tonight.
so this is where the kempo action is 🙂
We don’t even call our style “Shaolin Kempo” anymore, it’s just “kempo”.
I’ve been pursuing my study with Ron Chapel and SubLevel 4 kenpo and it is really incredible. Every technique is a study tool for particular lessons, each starts with the Psychology of Confrontation (which is a sub-level of range 1 – out of contact) – what is the attacker’s intent, and how can you determine his intent from his actions, and how does that frame your response? for example “he pushed you because he has no respect for your ability to harm him – if he thought you would present a threat he would have punched you. He wants to intimidate you, and not escalate into violence yet” or “you can tell he is intending to grab you and not push you by the configuration of the hands as he approaches”
But I think the biggest change to what we do has come through the footwork. Chapel was sble to demonstrate, and provide bio-mechanical references, that the half moon causes problems in your stances and stability. The gist of it is that when you swing the moving foot towards (or worse across) your center line it confuses the proprioceptive sensors and responses in your autonomic nervous system. This makes it impossible to create a rooted stance after moving a foot in this way. You will have no upper/lower body connection and therefore you will not be able to effectively resist a load in any direction nor can you develop maximum power.
But you are probably thinking ‘I half moon all the time, and I have good stances and can hit hard so David is full of it” and that is a reasonable thing to think LOL My point is that you can achieve much GREATER effectiveness by not moving in ways that corrupt your structure. The human body is an amazing thing and will adapt to what you throw at it. You have learned how to be strong and hit hard from a less than optimal body configuration. That is commendable. But I don’t think anybody reading thinks that they have no room for improvement.
I could show you a few simple “parlor tricks” that would demonstrate without a doubt that the half-moon itself is detrimental to your striking and stability. The maneuver and the stance.
But this thread is not about that, and it’s hard to do in writing.
True old-school karate DOES use “inward block punch” for everything, except the ‘inward block’ is never and inward block, and the punch is never a punch.
Glad to see you over here David. I have read elsewhere about the half-mooning and I know Marlon has gotten rid of it, but I cannot. This past weekend I got to train once again with some great martial artists down in DC and they hit harder then anyone i have seen. Their center is solid and they half moon. They may possibly be coming up in November maybe you can make it and see what they do. Its not Kempo, but they have a lot of Kempo friends.
Welcome David Carnley… where are u located?
I have mentioned and written about Half Moon-ing In, and Stances, in here before, somewhere. I found pretty much, or similar at least, to what you are saying. It is fine for “training” purposes, but for “sparring” or in a real life fight or self defense situation it is a disaster in the making. In order for Half Moon-ing In & Striking to an opponent or attacker to work, in the real world, your ability to judge the distancing between the two of you, and the timing must be precise. Else you will either get “jammed up” against his body and your strike will have no power, or you will be too long, ditto. In real life, with dress clothes, coats, jackets, shoes, darkness, wind, rain, etc.. your ability to judge distancing and to get the timing right with a charging attacker is very difficult. Further, the raising up off the ground, even ever so slightly, of the rear foot, and sliding it forward in a Half Moon, and then putting your weight back down on it, then striking, is timing consuming, noticeable, if not telegraphic move. Further, as I think u discussed, the off weighting and then on weighting creates a problem of balance and stability. No matter how nicely you “slide” your foot along or how quick you are at doing it. Out in the street, in real life, you may not beable to slyly slide your foot up. You may have to step, over something so u don’t trip.
Further, as I have learned in Judo, all it takes is a fraction of a second for your opponent to “off weight” one of his feet, and “slide” it along, for you to “off balance” him and sweep out that foot/leg. All it takes is a fraction of a second.
So I can’t even ever recall a time when I Half Moon-ed up and punched someone in sparring.
What I came to rely on, is standing a a more “natural” stance. Keeping my Right foot back a bit. sometimes in a Cat Stance, or T Stance, or Aikido Stance. Then simply gauging my distancing by moving forward or back with both feet, maintaining this stance. Then striking with my Right punch, with my right foot slightly back well “rooted” to the Earth, and using my knees, hip rotation, and forward momentum of my body/ upper body and center of gravity and Ki, into the opponent as I punch. Short and sweet. No elongated, fully extended punches.
Further, as I mentioned before in here. many years ago, I sparred with a guy who was well trained in Hard Karate. He just dropped down into a “forward stance” and hit me with a “reverse punch” so hard to my solars I swear I felt his knuckles hit my spine!!! Good thing I knew how to Kiai and take it!!! But, I was never able to get any power or stability from the Karate Forward Stance. I never felt comfortable in it. seemed my back foot kept sliding back, and I was falling off to the side or about to do a split. But that is just me, I know.
But for training and learning purposes, Half Mooning does have its merits. Also, if you are confronted with a dolt out there, then u can use it on him. As Jesse says, there is a lot of stability and power in it, in a static setting, I think. But in a real, all out fight, it seems to me, it would be difficult to pull off. You’ll get jammed up, or reveal yourself and get countered and hit. YOu also run the risk of getting that moving foot swept. Also, if you wait to punch AFTER you complete the Half Mooning, and you footing and stance is solid, then you risk getting punched right in the face.
So, I ask Jesse, have you ever Half Mooned In and punched sparring, or ever seen anyone do that? I can’t recall that I ever have. Maybe with beginner kids, or something.
But there are instances when it can be used as a secondary or finishing movement. But it just seems to me, that in a fight, u are usually too close to the opponent to effectuate a Half Mooning In and Striking.
This is all just my opinion, viewpoint, and 2 cents. It is neither right nor wrong.
So, yes, as David says, moving your foot across your centerline can cause problems. you can be swept. the opponet can suddenly grab that side shoulder and pull you over to the side, etc..
I’ve noticed, that many styles use the “natural stance”.. Small Circle Jujitsu, some Kempo, etc.. or the Aikido Stance (or modified thereof). Less risky, less obvious, less movement, less time.
It is just as good and easier and faster, to have left foot forward. Just shuffle in, and strike w the right hand, than to Half Moon in with the right rear foot. Then u have your forward Left hand/arm already there to block/guard/deflect/counter/assist.
Matt,
welcome back, and Yes Ed Melaugh is the Real Deal. Yes I have seen Wally Jay videos with Ed as the Uke, taking a beating. hee hee hee!!! If u notice, he pretty much uses a “natural stance”. He is fast as lightening. He goes from A to Z in an instant.
Marlon,”groundwork” in Villari kempo??? as I recall, that is/was non-existent. That is why I am so weak at it. So everyone can gain from Judo “mat work” or Gracie Jujitsu, or Fusen Judo (groundwork), etc..
The advantage of Villare Kempo is the Hands/ Hand techniques. The Strikes, the Animals, the multitude of directions of strikes and combination of strikes, continual flow, etc…be it straight, inverted, reverse, rising, etc… I’ve gotten into arguments online with BJJ/MMA proponents and fanatics, and when I start tallking about all the different strikes, they have no idea what the hell I am talking about. All they know is punch, elbow, forearm. So Kempo’s hands are a plus..
Jesse, I have a question for you
1) when might this thing be in November?
2) I have been thinking of “trying” to start/open a Martial Arts Center on the South Shore of Boston. There seems to be lacking one. There are a few places, but……….one place seems to be one of those “we know and do everything, 12 martial arts in one” place.. so…???????
But I would think it would need to be a Combination place. Exercise classes for elderly, housewife/mother’s hours, Aerobics, etc.. opened all day and into night. Since martial arts classes usually start with kids after school and Adult night classes. Days are free. But I know my first Villari studio, the instructor had lunch time instruction, and had regular students come in. Another studio I was at, the Chief Instrutor had a former student of his just got out of the US Marines, and he held early AM Boot Camp class (running, exercises, and kempo), all before people had to get to work. So schools, I’ve seen, even have Weekend Warrior classes, open all day and night Sat and Sun…
But, my question to you is, What does it take to start a School?
I would be thinking to have to bring in younger instructor. I would like to have Kempo, Judo, SCJ, Aikido, Escrima… Not “ALL IN ONE”, but have separate classes, at different times, with diff space in Center. So those who are interested in Judo (and there are many people who ONLY do Judo) can come and and train in Judo. Those whose personalities are more passive may wish to study Aikido.
Then work over time to try to “blend” them together. Which I have noticed has been happening anyways over the last 20 years. Kempo, Karate, Judo, SCJ, Gracie JJ, Escrima, Aikido……….there has been an ongoing “blending”.
I do know some people in different areas… i.e. Exercise instructors, Aerobics, this Zumba thing, Judo, SCJ, Kempo, Aikido, Physical Therapy, etc……which could lead to qualifed people. Put together enought “part time” pieces to make up the whole day and night, and weekend.
I’m looking at some locations close to a High School, so that might bring in kids as students.
But Mothers sometimes looking for something during late mornings/noon. Elderlyl people tend to be first thing AM… exercise, self defense, security issues. etc. etc. etc..
What would be good is to have a “Health Club”, i..e. weight lifting equipment attached to the martial arts center, but that takes big bucks.
But I know that you need to have other things going on, than just teaching kempo from 3:30 pm to 8:30 pm Mon-Thurs and 9am t0 1 pm on SAt. In order to pay the bills. Need to utilize space with other classes in other things.
Well, I ‘m just trying to figure out what it would actually take, to get started.
well I am half way done with your first post or three here and I will answer you question. Point sparring – No i never used the half-moon. Continous sparring and real fights – yes I have used the half moon multiple times. Its how i get my foot behind the opponent directly in front of me to sweep him or to take control of their center. When I was younger I use to work “Quality Control” in some not so nice places where it was not uncommon to have 20 people or so NOT getting along. In those chaotic push filled small space confinement situations I found the half-mooning drills helped me slip through the crowds without worrying about tripping. It is also in this scenario that I learned the benefit of twist stances. Nothing like uncoiling from a twist stance when your getting thrown between some monster patrons.
Todd,
Running a school is hard and running a successful school is even harder. I am not a fan of having all the different schools in one location – The different instructors will be the problem, it wont be long before one of the classes is way bigger then the others and then egos get in the way then the negative talk begins. It also has its advantages because It gives more options to the people you get in the building. Also – I have been a huge fan of what some of the schools have been doing lately. they are setting up a small gym off to the side of their dojo with a separate membership fee to use it. I know someone who has 80 kung fu students at $120 a month but has 300 people signed up for the gym at $10 a month. That $3000 off of the gym pays his rent. Thats nice making all the karate people almost pure income. Do you plan on teaching at this center? If so, you have 2 options – have enough money set up so you can get the students in or start somewhere small, community center, church or something and get a small group started then find a location after you have some garuteed money in. The seminar weekend is going to be Nov. 6th and 7th at my dojo. I am hoping to have a schedule up by tommmorow, the event will be posted here, my webpage and on facebook so stay tuned. Please feel free to email me and I will give you my personal number and would be more then happy to help you. Matt and I are involved in something right now, that when its done will be the perfect thing for you to help you get started.
Jesse
Jesse,
Yes, I have thought about all the points you raised. I know there is a place in Burlington, where someone (or more than one) rented a space, and has been trying to “sub-lease” to other Arts and Users (i.e . exercise, etc.).
Yes, Egos, trash talk, back stabbing, hijacking students, and competition would be one serious potential problem of having more than one ?Art and more than one instructor in one facility. As well as the differing numbers of students in each Art. Jealous, insecurity, and paranoia would certainly be issues.
However, I have been involved with some situations in which this has not been a problem. Amongst the Judo, Small Circle Jujitsu, and Aikido people, to name some. Although these tend to operate on a “club” or “non-profit” basis rather than a “commercial” school. Of course you can legally “pay” yourself in a “non profit”.
Of course the main problem is Scheduling of classes and space, for each Art. But one potential problem is any Instructor, or all, could at any time say “thanks for the students, bye, I’m taking them with me”.. This is where “non compete” clauses come in.
But as I said before, my goal is to “blend” a number of Arts together, as has been going on for about 20 years now. Judo, SCJ, Aikido, Kempo, Escrima, some of Gracie JJ. But I would NOT be doing UFC/MMA, etc. nor TKD or Muay Thai Kickboxing, and the like.
As to your 2nd point…. YES!! The best way to go is to operate the Martial Arts School as “non profit” club or “educational” school, operate at “break even” and have other “supporting” business operations in the same facility to pay the bills. The most obvious would be a Health Center/weight lifting gym, or any other kind of similar operation (gym, exercise, Zumba, dance, tennis, racquetball, etc. etc. etc..) which is big enough, not outrageous in cost, put the martial arts center in the basement, or in one corner. Actual I know of a large building/warehouse for rent, but parking would be an issue, although there is a parking garage next door, but I think that costs to park there, so that not too good.
Well I tried to look at this City’s “community” places, but I got nowhere. Everyone I talked to passed the buck to someone else, and said they didn’t know who had authority. But I’m looking at a place, which is used for other things, Zumba, Yoga, etc, and has a nice soft carpeting, But my sister said too soft for Zumba, her feet got stuck. but the available schedule is tight, and the place doesn’t stay open that late. But I still need to go pitch it to the Manager.
Ok Seminar NOv 6th and 7th, I’ll have to see. What is the Seminar going to be about?
What is your webpage, or didn’t I view that before? I forget.
What is your email?
mine is aspenrebel@yahoo.com
Todd
ahhh yes… ok, Half Moon up to get your foot behind your opponent to sweep, ok.. I just don’t think of that as or consider that to be Half Mooning In, rather just stepping up behind the opponent’s leg to sweep it.. but ok, I ‘m with you.
Alcatraz?
Sing Sing?
ahh yes, the good ole Twist Stance. I love it. Use it all the time. I use to use it sparring, either retreating or advancing in a Shoalin Tiger (Crossover) Twist Stance. I liked to retreat into a Twist Stance, Tiger claws up. Then as opponent attacked, quickly pivot around backwards and kick with a back kick (the leg which is actually forward to the opponent in the Twist Stance). I’d nail em in the solars every time. Or come back out of it with a Side Kick.
I’d like to attack into a Twist Stance, using continuous flowing Tiger hand strikes, low and high, groin – face – solars – chest – ribs. Once you attacking, in a low Twist Stance, it often confuses the opponent, and you can spring up or forward into him with a number of options.
You sound like one of my first Judo Instructors, he worked/works as an “orderly” in the Geriatic Unit of a Mental Hospital.
Yes, one does learn to walk in a more subtle, sliding manner doesn’t one? Having had a lot of martial arts training. Even if it isn’t a acuatl Half Mooning Up. You learn to maintain your base, and balance.